The Alternative Acoustic Podcast
A deep dive into acoustic artistry, with the guitarists who play their own way. Hear the stories behind their innovative guitar playing and receive exclusive tips and tricks to enhance your playing and creativity.
The Alternative Acoustic Podcast
Episode 12 - Vincent Schmidt & Natan Niddam - Guitar and Piano, Thumb Picks, Percussive Acoustic and more
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In this episode Chris chats with Vincent Schmidt and Natan Niddam https://www.vincentschmidt.ch/duo This podcast is brought to you by Ibanez UK.
https://www.vincentschmidt.ch/duo
In this episode, I chat with guitarist Vincent Schmidt and pianist Nathan Nidan. Now, Vincent is an incredible acoustic guitarist from Switzerland who I've known for a long time. As well as being an inspiring solo player, he has a duo with Nathan Nedan, and an opportunity came up to record an episode with them in Switzerland, and I jumped at the opportunity because the music that they create together is otherworldly. Whatever you're into, you will love this. Our conversation is decorated with beautiful examples of them playing together as they explain how they write together, and Vincent talks about his guitar playing and approach. We talk a lot about thumb picks and percussion on acoustic guitar. You'll get to hear stuff like this. And Vincent also happens to play Ud, so you'll get to hear some stuff like this too. It's a fantastic episode. How you compose, how you create. How do you do that? Do you just use ChatGPT or right? Great episode. The end of the episode, yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, the opposite of that actually. Uh we go on um his chalet.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um tiny chalet, no time where we went together.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow, in the mountains.
SPEAKER_02We go to the mountains.
SPEAKER_00So we go there for a few days and sometimes we have ideas and we just come with like a little piece of melody or harmony, and then we write like we enrich it together. Otherwise, uh we just start putting our fingers on the on the instrument and and starting from there and and and following a path. Uh like, oh yeah, and after that we could do that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, and after that, yeah, yeah, oh I think for the for the first album uh it was like I had some ideas before, like some riffs that I was going to say, like, oh, maybe that would be great with Nathan. Yeah, he had some ideas as well, and we like forced together to some ideas. Yeah, but like for the second one, it was more like okay, let's just play and well, let's see what happened. Can you show me?
SPEAKER_03Can you show me uh can you recreate the moment on the mountain? Can you like play me the riff? Like, what I came with this riff, I think, and then I played we had good cheese. Oh, you had good cheese, okay. So the the foundation the view is everything. The view's great, there's mountains, there's good cheese, there's some good chocolate.
SPEAKER_02A little bit of wine, and then yeah, yeah, so let's try. Yeah, let's try. I don't know. I mean, yeah, uh well, what was the first riff? Go on, show me. Oh, I think the first one this one. Yeah, you did that. Yeah, but I'm nice. And then I had um to put into the riff, but we didn't know how to put it. We tried to put that riff into the thing, and it happens to be a good thing. And we were like, what kind of timing is it? And we still I still don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seven? It's seven with a four thing.
SPEAKER_03Wow, I didn't I didn't even it didn't even come in my head that that was different because it feels like that that's that's what we we're always trying to do.
SPEAKER_00We we have a few odd mitters, and as soon as we hear that it that it's odd meters, I don't I don't really like it. Uh so yeah, I I like to always like find like a few times when when I'm composing, I have a riff, and then I ask myself, oh, is it in four, is it in three, is it in five, is it in seven? But just the the the riff feels good like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then you figure out what it what it is.
SPEAKER_03And same for you, present.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, but I mean uh at the first time when we record, it was like really a thing for me. I I never played finger style with odd rhythm. So when we put it together, I was like, oh, I will play in seven, in five, oh my god, it's gonna be a terrific to do it on stage because I never did it before, really, like for my own project. And now it's just like it's a riff, so it's more like oh yeah, it's that's a riff, but we you don't think about the the meters, but like, oh it's seven, and it's hard, it's just like oh that's the the song.
SPEAKER_03And yeah, and uh you're saying about like yeah, it's you don't usually doing finger style in like strange meters, but the this is quite an alien situation, I think, for finger style anyway, isn't it? Like with the match of the instrument because it's the the sort of huge low and high super high top there's so many frequencies uh covered, isn't there?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we have to think about it like when we uh play together, who's gonna take the bass part, like the the low end, um, and who's gonna take the high, and so often when we do melody, or it's like the same melody on the same pitch, or you have like you do the bass, I do the treble, and then when you go on treble, like on the bass to really have like all the spectrum. You sort of split it out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was a challenge for me when he's soloing on a piece. Uh-huh. Um, if I go too low, then the the guitar just sounds really tiny, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and yeah, you have to find a balance uh even when you're improvising a part.
SPEAKER_03So where do you sit when you do bits where you're sort of playing? Do you sort of sit in the middle then?
SPEAKER_00Actually, if we do if you're soloing like I guess here it is a good yeah, it does just that if I'm too dark, I guess he he he's a little bit weak, but if I'm a little bit in the upper range, then it it's it's blending a little bit more, and I like it. But on this is actually a bad example because on this track I like to go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Do you actually do I can I can hear it though? It's just yeah, so muddy's it, it's not it's like the context, I suppose.
SPEAKER_02Like if you were playing on the top and I was playing on the top, no? Like if you do the Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Let's go. No, this works for me. So here. Oh no, it's it's more like for this part, maybe?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00It's even too dark for the camera. I don't know how to play that part anymore.
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, we don't play it tonight. Don't do that one. Just do the ones you know. That's that's the um we're supposed to know this one, but yeah. Uh what's that that's kind of crazy, lovely, uncomfortable sound. What's that harmonically that you're doing there?
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_03Or do you not think about it? Yeah, we're doing it. Yeah, we were doing it.
SPEAKER_00We did a lot and we got help from like it sounds braggy, but we got help from from uh Aaron Parks to write that melody because I had a lesson with him in Basel, and we were in the middle of struggling for for this part, and um actually the the harmony is always the same, so E minor, G major, a flat minor, a minor, and it's just the the melody is so the melody sometimes is just in advance from the chord. Okay, so like when when I'm on G major and then I call this one and on the left uh end there is the That's the hard part for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, to keep the assignment.
SPEAKER_00And it's just a matter like it sometimes sounds strange, but it's only because the the next chord is anticipated anticipated by the melody.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay. So the the melody is playing the sort of key of the next chord already, and it turns into it. Yeah, okay. And I know we that's why that's why it sounds a little bit like that. I don't feel yeah, I don't know if I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_02Uh okay, cool. And it was hard to to practice actually. I remember that was like a long time ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But for for every track of the album, we we spent a lot of time uh working on it. Um so it's easy listening in a way. Like uh you think that it's easy and that's like flawless and uh flawless. Uh yeah, really, really smooth, but then it's it's a lot of work and and uh that's what I think is really cool about music. Yeah, like hearing something saying, Oh, I can play that, and then you try it and you're like, oh it's fucking hard. So yeah, I like this feeling.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh yeah, even like to to try to put the the piece together, it's like because we had the that group before. That's the first that's eight parts, and then we go do da do do do da. I mean for me it was like really cool to see like you can really put two different things into one song, but you have two different ambiance into one. Yeah, exactly. A cheeky sort of that's a pork beneath the moon, that's the name of the song. So it's a little pork beneath the moon.
SPEAKER_04Nice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but it's it's also like I I don't really often play in small uh small configurations like a duo, and you can really like we we had uh issues when we were trying to put parts uh of the songs together, and then I remember one one teacher told me that you don't care if you change the tempo or the key in the middle of the part, since we're only two, it's really really easy to do. And and that's what we did in a few songs. Yeah. Like really stopping and starting again on a new tempo, on a new new key. And yeah, that works well. Cool man.
SPEAKER_03Um let's talk about the the thumb pick and the right hand technique. Yeah, let's do that. Because you're you're you're a thumb pick man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So like in the duo or maybe, or uh you know, just anything. Tell me. Yeah, I mean it's it's crazy because I it's hard to play with the thumb pick because you have like a I think that you cannot really kind of the the size always the same and you just cannot have like a pick or you can choose uh if you want to.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so you can't move your thumb further down to like have more control. Yeah. But do you hold it with your index finger sometimes to stop it?
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah, I do it when I I solo with Nathan, or even like on solo. But like it's um so like single lines. It's like I have a big and I still hold my my finger to it. Okay. But I remember I tried like it's been 15 years now that I played with the thumb pick, and it's still hard. Um throw it away! Turn into it. Okay. But like now I can't play with it anymore. Like it's not possible to play. I mean, if I play without it, yeah, I have some songs, but I I feel like the bass is not there anymore. Okay. Power on the bass and and on the feeling. Uh and I try to have like now a pick and play with the pick when I solo because I find the sound better. Uh but still it's like the best thing to really have the independence of the th of the all the fingers and be able to have like a strong bass and uh all the fingers, so like uh that bass, I like it. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03And when you do the strums, is that fingers or yeah. And you're doing are you doing the click with your rather than the side of the thumb?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's the part. That was when uh I I could have like the Oh no. Okay.
SPEAKER_03The thumb doing the slap. So the thumb pick is hitting the lower string to make that sort of sound.
SPEAKER_02If it's possible, but if it's not, is the finger who's gonna do the slap. Okay. It's kind of a slap, but not a slap.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. What always sort of makes me think, oh actually, maybe maybe I should use a thumb pick, is the being able to get the tremolo technique of you know down and up on single note.
SPEAKER_04This?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. But I mean it's easier with a pick. Yeah, for sure. But but if you're finger picking, yeah, then you have to do the fussy classical like which, you know.
SPEAKER_02That's the compromise to that we we have with this. But I mean, I'm so happy to play all the all the Travis picking with that. I mean, that's why it's made for, I think, for the for the bass like Tommy Emanuel and to like So yeah, I learned that technique like a lot, and I spent so much time having the bass trained to be independent. Yeah. And I thought it was like always uh like it would never happen to be like you don't have to think about it. But now actually I can really compose and don't care about the bass and just have the bass going on. And it's good.
SPEAKER_0315 years off Well, I think it I think it actually is part of what makes you you and unique as well, because I think you're I mean essentially you guys are kind of uh jazz guys, right? Is that is that okay to say that in all of you can say that I hate jazz and but you're a you're a and Vincent, you know, you have this yeah, even in your solo playing there's this jazz flavour. But really, a thumb pick is not like a jazz thing, so I think it's original. But it works, isn't it? Because it's so bass like bass melody separated.
SPEAKER_02I mean the first album is like I think it's a without or maybe you know it's with. But um I remember playing your song and uh with the thumb pick is not possible because later. Is it not? All the percussion sounds really shit. Okay. Uh with a thumb pick, so you have like yeah, it's weird and it's not like the same sound. Yeah. So we're like, oh, I really want to have an album with without the some thumb pick and one with. And then at the end when I discovered Tommy and Manuel I was like, oh, maybe I should just try to do percussion and stuff with a thumb pick. Um and I think that's a great combination between like a Mirabis picking and like the crazy thing stuff on guitar player to try to put like the thumb pick like into some kind of open tuning like John Gong, like those like yourself, and try to put the tools together. Because Tommy never played kind of open tuning and yeah, he's not into percussion as well. I mean, just he has like crazy power percussion solo basis, only percussion solo.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah, it's kind of like this is the percussion reaction, isn't it? Which is try to put it together and do you ever do percussion in the piano? Yeah, we do when I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_04I just play drama.
SPEAKER_00No no no, we we have a few few more groovy parts uh that you play with um with the percussion, but but it's always something also like in in the track we we played a little bit uh before. The I always have like when when he enters a percussion and I want it to sit, and as soon as he's taking the melody, the the percussion is is going out, so I'm missing something. So it's it's always a balance of almost I better not to put it there in the fact because once it's there, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Once it's there, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00I I don't want to lose it and and yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I try my best to do it at the same time, it's hard.
SPEAKER_03I don't blame you for that. Let me check the uh cameras there. We'll leave we'll leave this thing as I as I wander over. Oh no, fantastic. It's great, cool. Um I still go in there. Can you sh can you show us a percussion bit? You guys play together with a bit of percussion and maybe tell us what you do and maybe talk about how you play the play the percussion in there.
SPEAKER_00What's the most interesting part for that?
SPEAKER_02There is a um ending of the song. Um is it is it good? Yeah, do a good bit. Oh.
SPEAKER_00Is it percussion?
SPEAKER_02Not really. Not really. I think the most one is like with the um the song of the bird.
SPEAKER_03Oh, but this is string slap, string tap stuff. I think it's interesting to percussion in a non doesn't have to be hitting the guitar, you know what I mean? So you have both, actually. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I can't wait to like watch you guys.
SPEAKER_00That's just uh that's so beautiful. Um, it's agreed in the same song that we have this.
unknownOh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Is this the bit that I'm gonna wrap? Yeah, okay. Cool. Yeah, it's I mean that sounds great as well, but I I think that percussion at the beginning is so powerful, even though it's just string percussion, right? Yeah, it's just like a like a double bass, but you have a I feel always like a double bass player on a muted ghost notes, sort of down and up, and then the snare drum or just on the hand, like are you thinking like a drum? Are you thinking like snare drum or bit more like a double bass? Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02And I have the octava on stage. So it's like big bass. Um yeah you can have a feeling of That's nice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's that's on the back just uh Yes. It works really great. And then the body percussion?
SPEAKER_02The sort of what uh then yeah it's more easy. Um he's doing the big part, but like three, four yeah so you have the kick?
SPEAKER_03As you know it. Interesting, okay.
SPEAKER_02So play the kick like this, like Michael, you do have offering.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. So you are you're just that's just ah okay, just mainly from the saddle, but you're doing it like a snare sound at the same time, so it's like the ultimate hitting over the saddle with yeah, with strings as well in the left hand. Yeah. Boom. Because I'm trying to sort of describe it for regular listeners. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh we'd be yeah, kick and snare in the same time. Cool. You think of kick here?
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, just the heel of the hand on the bot on the body, and then that on a rim shop. And is that sort of Tommy inspired percussion, do you think? Because that's like I'm thinking of him when he's doing the sort of what's the tune? The Mombasa. Mombasa, yeah. And he's going to be fair episode. Yeah. Are you a Tommy fan too? Or is you like through him? Yeah, okay, cool, cool. Come on, it's a big one, he's gonna sue me. We're gonna have to cut that bit out. There's gonna be a weird moment just where we're talking, and then I say, Tommy's gonna sue us. Uh cool, cool. But yeah, it works great, man. And you can't, well, you can't do percussion on the bit. Well, you suppose you can, can't you? I've actually seen the lights on a bit.
SPEAKER_00Not on this one, but I'm I'm playing a lot in the strings. How are you? I also have like I'm I'm always looking for the the right sound, so this is not an ideal setup, but um, I'm always in live taking the mics from the uh from the sound engineer and putting effects into the piano. Uh yeah, like delay reverbs, um also uh I don't know how how to say that. Um granular uh oh cool yeah, also granular effects and and time. You're playing with like Ableton and stuff, but yeah. I play with another dough called Gig Performer, which is like kind of a um another version of main stage, but everything is modular, and you can really really do anything you want. And yeah, I really love uh yeah, but I I always have a computer on stage. Uh I see, I see I'm using it as a pedal board.
SPEAKER_02So it was like we have wanted to have a duo to be simple, you know, to just have a piano even with one guitar, but then you have like a big pedal board thing with computer with my pedal board. It's not easy in the way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Are you doing delays and stuff as well?
SPEAKER_02I do, yeah, more and more with the quad cortex.
SPEAKER_03Ah, of course, right. Yeah, yeah. Oh, fantastic.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, that's the guy for like the sound, uh the effect on piano. I mean, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00I think you you saw it maybe from Bill Lawrence first or oh actually, actually, I I I thought about Bill Lawrence when I was trying to make my setup because he's doing that.
SPEAKER_03And with acoustic piano, it's always a matter of feedback and a bit of a nightmare for the two of you as well, because you've yeah you've got this huge low-end sound going into his mic as well, right?
SPEAKER_00Actually, it's it's more of the opposite. Oh yeah? Like I I I have like if I put a really strong delay, I can hear the guitar in the in the microphone.
SPEAKER_03I see. Oh, that's so cool. I really like Esbond Svenson trio. Yeah, you know, these guys love it sometimes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the first time I've got it. And also the the new version, like uh Rimden, they did without uh S Bond Svensen. Um and it's great, like also the drummer has a has a mic and and a percussion table, and he's putting effects with the mic. That's crazy. Rimden R Y R M D I N. Okay. Yeah, Rimden. Sweet, cool.
SPEAKER_03I checked that out. Amazing. Alright, uh, let's do another little cheeky check. Uh I think we're sounds great, guys. Can we move? Yeah, cool. Just a screenshot. It's like cool. Uh well, it sounds lovely. Um what about the uh because the finger start element of maybe having bass and chords and melody. Are you doing the same kind of thinking from solo to here, or you do sometimes then strip it back? Because that first track you showed, it was like, you know, an A thing with a bass and a melody. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I've learned a lot with Nathan because he's he's the guy with the harmony, with the the thinking like the chord is the I mean from my side of you, from my point of view, um, I think the stuff for me was more like you know, you you have an idea, you already maybe like change it a bit. You if you are good, you change maybe the key ones. But that's enough, you know. You have like and uh it was more about techniques and how to put the bass, the melody, the percussion, but a bit less about like what's gonna be the actual harmony of the song.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And with Nathan, it's more like, oh okay, so I've got an idea, but then we need to like extract it and really move it to like change it to different keys and maybe rhythm and maybe um methods or stuff. So I mean for now it's changing my way of playing finger style because I'm like, oh now I can really uh play a song or one on my new songs to try when I play solo. To have more awareness of like, oh, maybe I will change the groove here and change the tempo or the key or stuff. But it was really original that I I think it it moves my playing nowadays for the finger style. My composition are getting more uh complex in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh and what about the jazz school thing as well? Oh, it helps a lot. Yeah, a lot, a lot. But uh as well on the composition side, like on the harmony side. But like it's hard to do a finger style song and just play the finger style song and keep it on the top. I think we never did that before. Maybe one song from the new album is gonna be a bit like this. Yeah, it's more like uh that gad song, playing that gad and it's with tapping and harmonics, and we try to have Nate on the on the top, but often it's more let's compose a duo with piano and guitar and let's forget a bit about the finger style. But like when I need a technique, I just use it because I got like uh habits to do it. Okay. But yeah, I I think it's not like finger style and piano, it's more like my technical skills made us like a cool duo with like different sound.
SPEAKER_03But I wouldn't play uh because you can maybe do that in a restaurant.
SPEAKER_02You know, solo it's cool to like yeah, yeah. But like as a duo, it's not that cool. I don't know why. Yeah, I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_03You gotta do something about it. Is that where the ood comes in as well? Let's talk.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we could talk, let's talk ood. I mean, as I told you before, his grandgrand was the oudest of the king?
SPEAKER_00Yep. He played in the in the orchestra of the Moroccan king. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Played ood for he was the yeah. Is he still around today? No, no, no, no, no, no. He died ages ago. Okay, right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_02Wow. But so yeah, I've discovered the ood with Michael Leek, the bass player from Snakey Puppy. Okay. And uh he was playing the ood with Bill Lawrence on one record. And we were like, wow, that's lovely. No, uh yeah, no, that was for the ood, not for the duo inspiration. Um, that's another story for why we play together. Okay. I was at the show of Tommy Emanuel, the parentheses. Okay. Uh, and I was in Canada and I saw like a duo opening for Tommy. And he was like two Canadian, one piano player and one guitar, uh, like finger style with a thumb pick, I think.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, oh my god, I should have I think he's got the same thumb pick.
SPEAKER_02I'm not sure, but he was like fingerstyle-ish. And uh after the show I called me then I was like, man, we should be cool. Really well, yeah, that's lovely.
SPEAKER_01Um Jerome Beaulieu and Francois Jano. Francois Jano? Jannot Jean Why Jano, je crois. Uh yeah. Jerome Beaulieu. Francois Jalbert. Jalbert. Jalbert, yeah, that was the name of the duo. Okay.
SPEAKER_02And then we uh I discovered like yeah, B. Lawrence and my colleague, and he was playing the ood, and I was like, that's all lovely. Like oud and piano work so perfect together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you had some stories with the hood, like your inspiration was yeah, like there's always been an ood in in the in my grandpa's office uh at his home. And I don't I don't have the right to touch it yet. Okay. One day. I hope I I'm gonna take it back. Um and yeah, I've I've always loved this instrument. I've discovered it, I guess, with Dafa Yousef, um, which is a singer and Udhist. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, really, really beautiful. I guess it's the the first show that I've cried.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Uh is he the guy just like amazing sometimes does overtone stuff as well in his own.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I've seen videos, yeah, really and also Anouach Brahem, um, also a Ut player, yeah. Um Tunisian. And yeah, I've always been in love with this instrument, and when uh Vincent like talked to me about it, I was like, buy one, then it's gonna be on the record.
SPEAKER_02Play play some because it feels so like so yeah, um 11 strings, hard to stay in tune, but I love 11. 11, yeah, with one single on the bass. Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_03And you're playing with a thumb pick as well, that's like yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean at home I play with the um normal pick, like the one they use, but on the stage the normal because that's like a quill almost, right?
SPEAKER_03Like a long like a bone. Yeah. Really? Right. Okay, it's actually made out of bone, right? Yeah. The cheap version. Yeah, yeah. But nothing had to die in the making. No, so that's always positive. That's a vegan one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a vegan pick. That's good.
SPEAKER_02Um but yeah, I I used to just so uh put a drone, like a F notes on internet and on YouTube, and just put the scales and try to be accurate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is a song called Shadows. Shadows or Moyes Lullaby. Yeah. And Moes was the name of my uh great-grandfather. Right. Uh so we made this song for him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, that's just beautiful. I think it's it's actually quite hard to just have a sort of you know, intellectual conversation like that. Like, well, what strings do you use? Red strings.
SPEAKER_02And the red string thing? This one is white. Why? Yeah, why people I mean it's great for me to just where see where the G string is.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So why is G. I just so beautiful. So so we had we've had an episode with Buzz Gravel, who's a threatless guitarist. Yeah. And that um and I've been playing some fretless guitar currency of the wonderful Adam Ironside.
SPEAKER_02Um that's hard actually. That was like really hard for me to really get on point with the still. It's still hard, like without threats.
SPEAKER_03But it just sort of it's a totally different I f I feel like also I mean I everything you played before was utterly inspirational, but I feel like what you just played there sort of hits you in a different way. It's more maybe it's like a vocal thing, because it's just like the notes, uh and we've obviously still got the sort of perfect um you know, intonation of of the piano, off, on, off, but then there's something more sort of slightly vocal, isn't there?
SPEAKER_00And the marriage of the two just it's like really, really and and the the fragile side of the ood. I guess like it it's the same with the vocals, like having something you you know it can like go wrong so fast. Yeah. Still sounds kind of cool. I guess that's the beauty of it. Also like the the fragileness of of of the instrument. Music, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. Amen.
SPEAKER_03All right, gentlemen. I think that's beautiful. You gotta go to do a show. And I don't feel like I'm really talking that much more after that anyway. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you for the the great hosting. Oh